pay so much money to go taiwan and can't eat all the food. WHAT'S THE POINT!
on another note:
(please note that I'm not talking about my friends or Emily coz they don't do the stuff that I'm going to write about.)
if i weren't studying to be a teacher i'd think i'd find a course that would put me in a job that does research on religions and how they all work differently. stuff like that.
don't really mean traditions and what they do [like praying to god(s) or mounting kavadis] but i'd be finding out what makes people so devoted to their religions.
other than the usual answer of Hope of course.
i mean, what makes christians/catholics so devoted to their religions to the point where they're willing to give 10% of their salary to the church and why're the majority of people in a particular religion and how come some garner so much support and why some don't.
if you didn't know, sometimes i go to seminars and churches just to see what pulls them to it. I can assure you it's pretty interesting.
i thought of going to a prayer session at a particular mosque once.. until my friend told me that there's no point going coz they'd be speaking in arabic. or was it malay? either way, I wouldn't understand anything so i didn't go.
In the car today, I sat through an argument between my papa (the Buddhist/Taoist) and my older sis, Emily (the Christian) on stuff about their religions with my father denouncing Christians and Emily denouncing "superstitions" and how incense originated from Israel (the chosen place of Jesus AND how adam and eve blah blah blah.
If you ask me, their argument made absolutely no sense because they were arguing about different things. My father would be talking on an aspect of Christianity and Emily would reply with an answer that didn't fit in. it went on like that for 30minutes. Torturous.
Something my papa said stuck though. He said Christianity is the only religion that says that non-believers (minus the ignorant ones) will be guaranteed a lifetime in Hell.
I don't know if it really is the only religion that says that, but i sure as hell wonder which god would want to send like half the population to hell on judgement day. won't hell be really overcrowded? i'd think there're only so many torture devices in hell and wouldn't
nonsense aside, i wonder why would any god want everyone to believe in him/her.
Shouldn't a god be made up of love and compassion and only punish those who err and commit unspeakable acts? I don't think believing in another god is considered an act of any sort since no one gets hurt.
it's quite irritating because this simple rule (that non-believers go to hell) has most of its religious followers denouncing other religions and hounding you endlessless to "Come to Church with me and feel God!"
Seriously, give us a break.
It's really rude to say that all the other religions are mostly superstitions and claim your god to be the one and only.
It's even more rude to say that other gods don't exist and pull others to church with you and try to get them to convert.
Perhaps you do it because you want more people to be "saved" and we certainly appreciate your kind thoughts very much.
Many, many thanks but no thanks.
Just like your religion has rules, other religions have rules too.
Islam, for example, decrees that devotees are not to step into any other places of worship other than their mosques.
Plus, you don't really see others embroiling other non-believers into their religions.
I honestly respect and feel touched when I witness the die-hard faith of Christians in churches and seminars.
At the same time, I think it's time that you guys show other religions a little more respect.
What's so difficult about "Live and let live?"
22 comments:
I don't believe in religion. I believe in a philosophy and a set of values that you live by. I believe in believing in yourself. The human spirit is greater than you think.
There's no heaven and hell but there is science. However I admit that religion or the act of praying might give you the self-confidence to accomplish things you've never thought possible.
Christians may be deluded, but it is a fulfilling "delusion". Funny how females believe in the Bible. It denounces females and in quite a humourous way.
..
who're you?
nice entry babe, lol.. my exact tots.
i totally agree with u on wadeva u said maybe if u write in anonymously to a paper they will publish it.. try reader's digest.. they pay u somemore.. no serious.. anyway.. christians aren't the onli ones who said tt.. sadly taoists too.. tts why me n mom no longer go to the sat prayers blah blah with my auntie.. n my mom has christian friends who kept persuading her in too which she din.. >.< now we just wanna go back to being free-thinkers..
hey, seriously.. when i toking to ur sis, i say how come ur dad let her go to a christian base sch in the 1st place that causes her to convert. lesson 1, do not send ur child to a sch that is based on a religion that is not ur own! haha!! anyway.. great thinking.. i said mean things to some christian who insist to pull me to church and say if not, i'll go to hell. ha! of cos.. the mean thing i've said cannot be repeated.. its too bad i guess.. HAHA!
Quit teaching and go and study anthropology la.
Personally I think a lot of these questions don't have a straightforward answer. People are religious for different reasons, are religious in different ways, and - to make things even more complicated - have the propensity to see the same religion in different ways. "Christian" and "Buddhist" and "Taoist" in your post are really broad categories of general spheres of faith which have a lot of differences in practices and beliefs within each category themselves. A general trend does not account for specific occurrences.
What makes these categories different from each other all boils down to what people think differs between each of them. i.e., if the general consensus were not that Christians and Jews have crucial differences that set them apart, they would be put in the religious category. (Do you get what I mean? Hahahaha.)
When people behave in a hostile way in the name of religious fervour and faith, I don't think we can blame the religion, but the people who interpret it that way, and the way they choose to act and subsequently justify their behaviour.
On that note, if you think you have too much time to spare hahaha maybe you might want to read some Karen Armstrong! She's a really reputable theology academic and I really like the way she writes. :)
To Anon:
There are no atheists on a sinking ship in the middle of the Pacific Ocean. Nearly all people cry out to a higher being when they are in desperate situations.
Can you give examples and evidence to justify your comment about bible denouncing females?
To Jiaxi:
Fer the record, my pri & sec school believe in Catholism. I am a Christian and believe in praying through God and not Mother Mary. Anyway, Jasmine and I got converted by our tuition teacher in 1998 though she didn't follow through.
To All:
Just as there are Muslim extremists who misrepresents the true nature of Islam, I regret to say that there are Christians who use hard-sell tactics to promote their beliefs. Hard-sell tactics are NOWHERE MENTIONED in the bible.
To Jasmine:
There are also many religions that preach about hell, like Taoism’s 18 levels of hell with the last level being burnt in the furnace of fire forever.
Tithing - it’s a principle of sowing and reaping. When you plant a seed on a fertile ground, eventually it’d be a tree with many fruits. Within each fruit there are many seeds and now you can see the power of potential of the seed. By sowing a tenth of the seeds back, you’d get greater harvest.
The bible promises a hundred fold return. Not just financial, but in health, r/s etc.
A secular book – richest man in Babylon explained how the world richest people are also great philanthropist. Take fer instance Bill Gates who has donated all of his $46billion wealth to charitable causes. If you’re not going to give when you have little, you’re not going to give when you have a lot. The book explained it as the people not being a slave for money but masters of money. Also from ancient times, farmers give 10% of their crop harvest as offerings to their God too.
In anyway, all these I talked about are only true fer those who believe. All these are supernatural things and have to be experienced personally.
From Genesis
3:16 God punishes Eve, and all women after her, with the pains of childbirth and subjection to men.
Exodus
23:17 Three times a year God wants to see all of the males. The females he never wants to see.
Corinthians
11:3 "the head of the woman is the man."
14:34-35 "if they will learn any thing, let them ask their husbands at home: for it is a shame for women to speak in church."
To the believer these may not mean much, to an outsider they speak a lot.
Yup I know about the many religions who believe in Hell part. However, there aren't many who claim that I'll go to Hell for not believing in something. It's like telling me that I'll get raped if I don't eat M&Ms.
Actually I had no issue with the 10% thing but since you said it, why would gods need money? I can understand the offering of crops (maybe gods need to eat) but I hardly think gods need money. It makes more sense to donate to the poor man(or woman, since Anon. is on the subject of gender slighting) on the street than to donate to um, build more beautiful places of worship?
And yup I was partially converted once. But I believe I was in p4 - all of 10 years old and too easily excited by things which defined me as a rebel (against my parents, for most parts).
Anyway Anon., did you REALLY read the whole of the Bible and highlight the lines (that you felt denounced women) one by one yourself or did you just copy paste that from a website? Sometimes, text changes meaning when taken out of context.
haha, i love having such discussions! (i've been having them in newcastle too! haha)
well, i don't know but personally i have experienced that it's mostly the christians who try so hard to convert you. and the one thing (that i always bring up)that struck me really hard was during morning prayer in SAJC where they quoted "he who do not believe in God are fools"
i mean like, COME ON HOW CAN YOU SAY THAT?! what about the other religions?!i felt that it was a total disrepect to other religions. but yet when i was in CJC, morning prayers weren't about catholics only, it was more like addressing everyone and they actually acknowledged that not everyone is catholic and they respected other religions. even in catholicism class, (i'm a free thinker but i joined catholicism class to escape from my home tutor lol) it was focused more on reflecting on what we take for granted and sometimes it was somewhat like meditation (well, to me at least. lol) and inspiring us. but none of it was about how you MUST BELIEVE IN GOD, if not YOU WILL GO TO HELL!
in the first place, if God loves everyone, how could he bear to let us suffer in hell? sure, everything happens for a reason. but surely not believing in him entirely can't be a valid reason. (you've got to admit it's unreasonable!) and then, if there is a God, why is there suffering; suffering kids in Africa?
and yes, i do agree that the bible is gender bias. naturally, when mentioned, people would think that God is a white, heterosexual male. but why can't God be otherwise? it's HEGEMONY i tell you! of course the easiest explanation is that God is not a human so he's in a different league. but to be honest, that is some dodgy explanation!
and well, you know how the prophecies actually coincide and match up and the biblical records, have you ever thought it could actually be more like a story book, maybe adapted from a true story, but exaggerated?
oh dear this does seem that i'm targeting christianity. but I'm not! i'm just questioning the status quo. (which is something i've learnt from my degree programme. hahaha)
亚当和夏娃吃了神的禁果后，躱在树林里。WHY GOD NEVER DESTROYED THIS FRUIT TREE ? WHAT IS HE INTENTION ???
To Jasmine: 'However, there aren't many who claim that I'll go to Hell for not believing in something. It's like telling me that I'll get raped if I don't eat M&Ms.' please, I've already said they are misguided people who tarnish the image of Christianity.
Ok, whoever said God needs money when God created everything in the first place?? Everything belongs to Him and he just want to us to show that He is the Lord of our lives. And that He is alive! Not all money goes back to building fancy buildings. A large amount goes to helping the poor and needy (local and overseas) via missionaries. The tithe is sown into the kingdom of God to the spread of the Gospel (Good News) throughout the world.
TO ALL (ESP ANON):
Now, on the issue of woman. The bible consists of the new and old testament, old belonging to Judaism and new belonging to Christianity. New testament means that Christ died for the sins for all mankind and with that came the blessings of God that are unmerited and undeserved. (Romans 6:14
For sin shall not [any longer] exert dominion over you, since now you are not under Law [as slaves], but under grace [as subjects of God's favor and mercy].)
It is important to note that the original old and new testament were written in Hebrew in Greek respectively. Even as the bible is the most circulated and widely translate book of all time, there are bound to be certain misinterpretation or inaccuracies as a consequence of translations. This is not to say that our bibles are inaccurate but that the Hebrew and Greek languages employ the use of a greater variety of tenses, descriptors and adjectives to bring out the original inspired meaning most accurately.
All in all, some degree of scholarship and research will be required before one is qualified to make a balance, unbiased and well-informed stand or critique. I challenge you to read the bible in context and fer yourself; I believe that if you give careful thought to the words and wisdom in this book, you’ll see why Christianity is the world largest and most diverse faith system and the numbers are exponentially growing.
Which means, the laws in the Old Testaments are no longer valid for believers of Christ Jesus today as we’re redeemed from all sins (that doesn’t mean you go around creating murder etc thinking that you can be forgiven. Romans 6: 1- What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin that grace may abound? 2 Certainly not! How shall we who died to sin live any longer in it? 3 Or do you not know that as many of us as were baptized into Christ Jesus were baptized into His death? 4 Therefore we were buried with Him through baptism into death, that just as Christ was raised from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.)
I’d just take an example from one of your quote. Please take note how you LEFT OUT important details and only quoted ¾ of 1 Corinthians 14:34 and LEFT OUT 1 Corinthians 14:35 when you state you 1 Corinthians 14:34-35
1 Corinthians 14:34"if they will learn any thing, let them ask their husbands at home: for it is a shame for women to speak in church." WHY did you LEAVE THIS OUT (if you want to quote to justify yourself) > ‘JUST AS THE LAW ALSO SAYS.’ at the end of the sentence?! The whole sentence should be ‘The women should keep quiet in the churches, for they are not authorized to speak, but should take a secondary and subordinate place, just as the Law also says ‘
Surely from what I see here, you’re just nitpicking on what you want to see and not see everything in context! From what I’ve quoted above, the law DOES NOT apply to us now. Also, you did not continue with ‘Corinthians 35 – But if there is anything they want to learn, they should ask their own husbands at home, for it is disgraceful for a woman to talk in church [[a]for her to usurp and exercise authority over men in the church]. In these verse, no where does it say woman is less importance or weaker in terms of intelligence and capability.’
What this verse is trying to say that it is only good that the man is placed as the head of the household and state of affairs, with the woman playing an adaptive role. It is common sense that any two-headed being is simply a monster; or an organization to function properly, there can only be one head. (No 2 personalities are the same; an organization is only best adapted to 1 leadership style) Again, this does not mean that the woman plays a less important role; in fact, it is often the prime ministers who are more important than the president of many countries. In short, what this verse is trying to say is that both man and woman has been designated specific tasks suited to their strength; it is not wise for the woman to assume otherwise.
Besides, why not look at the ‘positive’ side too and weigh things out and not dismiss the rest like that. There are great woman mentioned in the bible too fer I shall not elaborate. Galatians 3:28 -
There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither slave nor free, there is neither male nor female; for you are all one in Christ Jesus.
To anon: Yes, text changes meaning when taken out of context. What is the whole context? If the bible were to be read so superficially, we needn't need pastors around to explain to the whole church. Mark 4:11 ‘And He said to them, “To you it has been given to know the mystery of the kingdom of God; but to those who are outside, all things come in parables’ Means, unless you seek and thirst to know more of God’s word fer us, everything will come to you making no sense.
To Anon in Eng/Chinese: God didn't destroy this fruit tree as the fruit tree symbolizes the 1st of all tithe. God told Adam and Eve everything on earth was theirs except not to touch the Tree of Knowledge of Good and Evil. Is that very difficult? No right? God is infinitely fair and just. He want us to have the freedom of choice. FREEDOM IS EXPRESSED IN CHOICE. And at the juncture where the devil tempts Adam and Eve, they have their choice, and they made the wrong choice. If everything was good, how can anyone make a choice? Furthermore, out of ALL the trees that man was allowed to touch, man was NOT ALLOWED to EAT just ONE. Here we see the goodness and generosity of God.
Right, I think I should stop here lest this discussion drag till like forever cause questions are never ending. If you are spiritually blinded you cannot understand the sprit things. Take fer instance if you have lost your sense of smell and I bring to you a bottle of perfume, no matter how I try to describe and convince you how nice this perfume smell, you’d never be able to fully comprehend or believe me.
It takes the mercy of God fer one’s spiritual eyes to be open. Those who are spiritually blinded will not be able to discern the things of the spirit. There can be no end to these arguments because we are discussing issues from 2 very different realms that are immutable.
God bless and have a good week ahead!
I don't think much is going to come out of quibbling over specificities in the Biblical texts; as Jasmine rightly pointed out, context is everything. Theologists and academics have spent centuries trying to decipher and make sense of the Bible (and other religious texts) amidst their respective historical and cultural contexts. There is no single conclusion, no one rightful interpretation of any of these texts, and there never will be. Neither will trying to compromise on a single explanation help anything.
Religions came about for a whole host of reasons, and they continue to exist for a whole host of reasons as well, some the same as before, but many others differently. As people and societies change over time, so do their religious needs, beliefs and actions. Whatever we're talking about now is only a cross-section of a certain point in time, and it's all bound to change eventually anyway.
At the end of the day, whether people of different faiths and religious backgrounds can coexist in peace - or not - no matter what their religion thinks of non-believers, all boils down to the principle of reciprocity:
Do not do unto others what you would not want others to do unto you.
Of course that doesn't mean to take it entirely literally; it's just the basic idea of mutual respect. I don't think there's any religion that argues against that. If you take that as one of the fundamental values of the religion, any subsequent interpretation of any verse, paragraph, or section of the religious texts will naturally take the same tone as well.
holy mother fark (sorry dun intend to abuse the word holy here) but i knew at the start that this will spark off some debate but WOW this is worth the TOPIC of the year award. anyway ya lo, i dun believe in donating money to gods too look at all the monks driving in geylang and staying in hotels >.< plus i oso dun believe that doesnt mean u dun believe in god u go to hell.. when u die, u just die actually. i think instead of believing in hell or heaven, why not just spend the time loving being a human and not waste any wadeva remaining time left on earth thinking wad might happen up or down there? life is short. :(
Goondu laling jiak pa bo se zo and created such a controversial topic! You better put a nice ending to this so that everybody can be happy and there's no hard feeling for the believers of different religions as well as the non-believers! Make LOVE not WAR, my dear! World peace, world peace! Hahaha. :)
Okay enough you guys!
The title of my post is respect (for all religions), not about the Bible being biased against women, nor is it about what's right and what's wrong in the Bible. And it's absolutely not about spiritual blindness.
It's about telling people to respect religions and not brush them off as a bunch of superstitions just because you don't believe in it.
So please don't slam the Bible (and goad emily into scouring the whole bible for lines to argue with you). :D
Emily: Sorry but I just HAD to say this. You keep harping on us being spiritually blind so that we can't see what you see, don't feel what you feel. But we could in turn say that you're the one who's spiritually blind because you can't see the other religions and see/feel from their point of view.
It's good to have an opinion, it's good to think deeper, it's good to argue to protect what you believe. However... It's better if we can try to understand more first before we form any opinion. And it's best if we can learn how to respect and be more 包容 to each other. :)
hmmm true est, I LOVE YALL OKAY!
LOL. okay i'm not a feminist but why must the head be male and not female? HEGEMONY I TELL YOU! (HAHAHA)
andddd, i've been wondering. you know how it is said that we always have our choices. but how can you be sure the choice we made is really our choice and not our destiny or a choice that God has already made for us?
btw, why did you guys convert anyway? i was talking to some christians and some of them sortof grew up with it, while some actually went through some tough patch and all and they believed that God helped them. and btw, do christians believe in ghosts?
hi there, i'm not exactly following the comments made here by others, but on your blog post -
imagine one day you chance upon this fountain of immortality, or longevity or whatever you will call it.
won't you want to share this with all your loved ones, your friends and family? what good is it if only you alone get to experience this fountain? (:
granted, i admit the way some Christians go about "pulling others to church and getting them to convert" can come across as aggressive, and perhaps annoying.
but do think about it, if they do not feel that what they have is real, and good, why would they even want to bother sharing this with others? what or how would it benefit them? because it's not like the more people they get to convert, the more brownie-points they earn.
and yes, i do agree that respect is important. perhaps we should all learn to respect each other's religions more.
anyway, everybody's entitled to their own beliefs and opinions. this is just my two cents worth (:
haha I didn't convert! My tuition teacher kept preaching and saying how good god is and blah blah blah and she told her pastor our address and he sent us stuff on christianity and things like that. Then she left us, as in she stopped teaching us and so we left it at that (the i-want-to-be-but-i'm-not stage).
So when I grew up, I find it hard to give myself over to religions because there're many aspects of religions that I'm not comfortable with.
THEREFORE, i'm a free thinker. :D
Random memory: I got whacked on the head with a Bible when I was 5 hahha. By my kindergarten teacher cos I wouldn't say grace before snack time. Lololol.
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